Re: Unidentified subject!

["Robert G. Brown" <bob@xxxxxxx>]

>>1) The Web
>> We must provide a spot on our web page devoted to new users (newbies)...
>there are a ton of places on the www for that...
I believe the intent here is to shorten the path. We link to SAL and
sunisite right now, Mr. Dunbar would have us link directly to sites like 
the LyX site, or perhaps one for Applixware. There's value in picking a 
needle out of the haystack for some.

>>The average person does not care to get on a mailing lis
>the best place for answers is easily, by far #Linux on efnet....
Again, the same notion. #linux might be ok for you, but you're already up to
speed, at least 'way more than the average user. Let's open it up a bit...
As far as learning things is concerened, KLUG can fill in that space between
the time you get a copy of Linux and the time you're ready (and confident 
enough) to use chat, or post questions on USENET.

>>That is why in part the "Dummy" books have done
>>so well. We must provide resources that encourage the user to continue
>>rather that give up.
Exactly.

>...i mean you don't need windows 95 for dummies, god how hard is pointing and 
>clicking? 
No, YOU don't (or didn't) need this, I don't, others do.

>... i've never really used books to learn it, mostly just from friends
>that also were learning it at the same time, and from people on irc.
But what happens if you don't have friends that know it? Or aren't ready for 
chat?  There's a gap there for many people that we can fill better than 
ANYTHING.

>i remember when i first heard about linux, i had only been using a computer for
>a few months....
Your story is not too unusual, but it's so technologically saturated that it's
very clear you're much more at ease with computers than a lot of the public,
IMO much more so that Mr. Dunbar's "average" user.

>....but then if you want to play a game you are required to ftp
>to this site ftp.blahblah.com and download joystick-modules.v1.3.54.35.tar.gz
>or whatever, after that you need to get some certain sound driver or it won't
>work....
It would be a whole lot easier if you had a place to go that helped you
through these things. No, not HOWTOs or email support, but real live human
beings, who can show you the setup live and in person.  This makes a huge
difference.

>the average computer user in my opinion doesn't know how to resize their hard
>drive/create a boot floppy and use fdisk to create a partition in linux....
And with recomendations like "use chat to have your questions answered, oh
newbie" and "we don't need to help, let the newbie search the whole web", few
average computer users will be successful.

But if we can add value and understanding, provide a real learning experience,
the average user can get over that steep curve and go on to be a poductive
and successful user of the software.

>>2) Meetings
>>Meeting's must be at a level where the average user can understand what is
>>going on....
>i don't think we need to aim anything to people that don't use it, or want to
>know more about it....
I'm not sure what this means, but I do know what it means to present informa-
tion in a way that is more accessible. I can go into this in more detail for
those who are interested. Bruce did a fairly good job of it last evening, pro-
viding a fairly clear overview of a lot of the networking commands without 
slinging around of a lot of technobabble. I was watching as some questions were
asked that used technobabble, and there were a number of newbies' eyes glazing
over. If we stay away from the alphabet soup, or define terms a little more
clearly (as well as considering other ideas put forward by Mr. Dunbar, and 
others), we'll be very effective in helping a lot of people become more 
successful.

>...and they say "that's to technical for me" uhh how else are you going to
>tell them how to compile a kernel?!
First of all, compiling the kernel IS technical, there's no getting around
that. There are a lot of choices to be made, a lot of understanding required
to do this reliably and successfuly. A year ago, I had not done it once, now
it doesn't muss my hair much. This is not so much a matter of "too technical"
but how prepared someone is to learn, and dealing with their expectations.

I used to teach secretaries (among others), people with a high-school educa-
tion, maybe a wee bit more, to program. Over half the battle was removing the
fear of technology. I did this in a number of ways, like showing how a compu-
ter worked with pits of paper, pencil leads, a shoebox, kids blocks. I was
(and am) secure enough about what I do so that I can play the buffoon a little,
be a bit of a comic, in order to remove some of the fear and mystery many 
people seem to have about this stuff.

It's shocking how effective these students turned out to be when they wrote
applications. Many of them wrote better code than "programmers", and some
of them turned it into a career. I still get cards from some of them, and
business from two of them today, almost 20 years later.

                                                         Regards,
                                                         ---> RGB <---