Re: Programming?

["Robert G. Brown" <bob@xxxxxxx>]

>>>I agree that it's not a good language for real applications,
>>>but I do believe it's a good learning tool.
>>Ah, so you agree (at least in principle) that a good language to learn
>>stuff is NOT nessesarily a good language to use in the workplace.
>>No argument! :)
>Right.  I'm also glad my first language resembled most other programming
>languages.  It uses things like "if", "for", "print", and most other
>common programming statements. 
Many of these keywords are forces into un-natural constructs, which makes it 
harder for many novice programmers to pick up. I think 
   if (something) {
         do(this);
        also(this);
      {

is probably not too bad for most people, but lots of folks have trouble with

   if (something)
         do(this);
   else if (somethingmore)
         do(that);
   else if (adifferentsomething)
     :
     :
at least when they're starting off. Maybe YOU understand this from the get-go
(I didn't, but learned how during the Carter administration),or you got used 
to it, but that doesn't make it nessesarily easy, correct, understandable, or
"good".

>APL is a completely different animal.
Indeed it is, and it doesn't suffer from many of the pitfalls presented to
the novice programmer, the above being a trivial example.

>>>>Anyone who writes a business system in VB is
>>>>just plain nuts (and I know alot of them).
>>But a few messages ago, you were telling us how APL is used by so few,
>>and other languages (like VB) are used by so many. If they're all nuts,
>>why need we listen to 'em?
>I don't remember _ADAM_ saying that before.  
>(Your're replying to his statement, not mine!)
Oh, did I lose track of who was claiming what?
Sorry! :)

>>>He's not talking about writing business systems, but
>>>learning programming.
>>Exactly! I've proposed a language which has proven itself (despite you
>>personal experience) to be an outstanding tool at this sort of thing.
>I never said APL wasn't proven, or couldn't do the job.
I never said anything about what you never said. [Huh! :)]

>It's so different that most other languages, I don't see it
>as a good starting point.
As I DID say, that's the core of where we differ. I have been through the
experience of learning APL, then other languages, and guiding people thorugh
that path. I've found it to be an effective and worthwhile way to learn 
programming, whether the student ends up using APL or not.

I understand you don't like APL, Bruce. That's a pity, because many people have
gotten a lot out of the language. I'm sorry your college course soured you on
the thing, for whatever reason. None of that makes APL a bad tool, especially in
the right hands.

Some of the largest organizations in the area have been using APL for decades.

                                                           Regards,
                                                            ---> RGB <---