Re: Programming?

["Robert G. Brown" <bob@xxxxxxx>]

>>Perl has been covered.
>>C is commonly known; 
>And is a VAST topic.
Actually, C is a fairly small language (one of its strengths). Much of the 
utility of C is in libraries; people simply wouldn't use C if it didn't have
a fair amount of supprting software.

>> BASIC is out of it; 
>I'm not convinced of this.  I've seen X-and some other VB like basics 
>for Linux, and while I never really tried them,  they might be perfect 
>for low-end applications.  In this category I might also include 
>Pascal (and certainly Delphi), as I think the demise of Pascal is 
>greatly exaggerated.
I seem to recall that this got started with a request for languages suitable
for teaching.  IMO VB and cousins hide too much of the machinery to be really
useful instructive tools, at least when it comes to a lot of CS topics, and
disciplines like algorthms, data structures, etc. This is much less true of 
Pascal, but it is not "modern" (O-O) enough. Foir a first language, not a 
bad choice.  I'll pass on Delphi, since I simply don't know enough about it.

>> Visual Basic I don't know but
>VB is an M$ and Win32 only deal, and I suspect always will be.  It 
>relies on things like ActiveX controls, and such, which are so tightly 
>bound to MFC and Win32 that you really can't have one without the 
>other.
Don't be too sure of this. a couple of more files in /usr/lib and we'll
be right there. All that "MS-proprietary" technology isn't too far away
from a lotta UNIX toolsets, constructed a decade or more ago. MFC is only
an API for the serious stuff.

>>appears of interest; FORTRAN is alive in some engineering circles; 
>I don't even think I've ever seen one line of FORTRAN code.
We think no less of you for having missed it. Please do not consider this 
a cultural defect.

>>LISP lingers, according to President Bob; 
>I'd be interested in a session on LISP, if more out of curiosity than 
>anything else.
I would like to see a use of LISP that is not a CS exercise, or a prototype,
but a production-grade application. I don't doubt they exist, but have never
run across one.

>> LOGO is fun & might be a way to get
>> your spouse/kids involved in your favorite sport; 
>ucblogo (Berkley Logo) for UNIX is still around on some aging FTP 
>servers...
Someday, someone will come along with a desire to revive it. That will make for
and interesting bunch of reactions.

>>APL is intriguing and
>>might be presented as a puzzle session:  what does this rather long 
>>line do/mean?  Only non-APL's allowed to answer.  That session might have 
>>only one question for the whole evening.
Silly!

>Didn't we do an APL session once?
Yes, and we've done other topics multiple times, especially when the initial 
session was poorly attended, as was true with the APL session. Repeats, 
especailly when things have changed, are not unprecedented events.

>>Has Java been tackled by KLUG?
>I don't think so, but it's been talked about.
IMO this is a good one to include.

>>ML and J might be covered in the LISP evening. Surely ADA should not be
>>in the series;  it would take at least a year.
I'd give ML and J it's own evening.

>> I suggest we NOT talk about real dinosaur languages such as ALGOL,
>> COBOL,...
>I wouldn't call COBOL a dinosaur,  it will probably still be around 
>when I'm in about the same shape as the dinosaurs.
There's still more COBOL around than everything else put together. COBOL
never got popular on UNIX for a number of reasons, but that's another 
thread.

>> Surely this proposal will be rejected as peripheral to LINUX...
Why? 

>>but if LINUX is to be a development tool, some programming is necessary
>>and C/C++ might not be the best way to go for a particular project.
It was fashionable, for some time. Now, balance is starting to re-emerge.
Management ropes down a buzzword or two ("object-oriented" and "client-server"
are the 90's entries) and decides that It Is The Future.  Numerous blown
prjects and a few million later, someone overcomes their timidity and sug-
gests that maybe that choice was less wise or profiund than Parting The Red
Sea.

>I think C is very often NOT the best approach to a problem,  but it 
>certainly is the safest.
Eh? Unless you mean politically, ya lost me.

                                                            Cheers!
                                                             ---> RGB <---