Re: Fool.Com

["Robert G. Brown" <bob@xxxxxxx>]

R A Kaup sr. <papaw626@earthlink.net> wrote
>>...As always I am enlightened and interested. Now as I learned long ago. The
>>principle of yes-but must come into play.

Adam Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> wrote:
>The "yes-but" factor always comes into play.  I think I can make a 
>case that the advancement of almost everything happens through 
>"yes-but".  Always feel free to "yes-but"  me.

Where I come from, it's called "Yeah, but"; that's another story. The other 
thing we're seeing here is called "Yes, and", which is building on what the
previous writer contributed, not really contradicting anything.

>> Yes they are both right. And Yes they are both very good at the 
>>fields of using and growing the the use and advantages of linux. 
>>Very bright people. So Now the buts.
>Thank you.
Yes, Thanks!
BUT..... :)

>>       One and I thought the main direction of the article had to do 
>>with the success of linux in first the college crowd. And I am endlessly 
>>amazed at the uses, this group get old machines to perform for them.
Nessesity is the mother of invention, and if invention has an older brother,
its name is desperation, being at one's wits end with resources the conven-
tional wisdom states is simply not enough.

>>And second the report that linux was making Hugh inroads in the high 
>>end use of systems and was a very big player in this fields. I will pass to 
>>both these gentlemen on this subject. The claims are impressive and from 
>all I read not exaggerated.
>Probably understated.
Agreed. There is something about what's going on with Linux that reminds me of
a Willow tree. I owned land with two Willows on it, for about 10 years. I'll
tell you something about Willows... only about HALF of the plant is visible!
The root system is the largest part of the damn tree!

For all the trade press we SEE about Linux, they are missing at least HALF of
what's going on. I'll say the same thing about Gartner; they're good once you're
on their radar and they've climbed the learning curve, but look what had to 
happen first!

The people on Wall Street see it now, too. Some of them are motivated to see
how deep it's gone. I recall the concrete contractor I hired one to fix a 
cracked sidewalk in front of the house, he came up shaking his head and holding
a Willow taproot. The Willows were in BACK of the house.

Similarly, industry analysts are scratching the surface of many ventures and new
products, and they keep coming up with penguins. It's starting to annoy some of 
them!

>>But I think both missed the third and I thought central issue of 
>>the  article. Desktop use and most importantly "Ease of desktop use"....
>OK,  maybe off this list (as some people are sensitive to discussions 
>of this type).  I'm seriously interested in what specific problems 
>people have with using Linux as a desktop OS.I rarely get answers 
>when I ask this, so feel free to mail me.
May I propose that we build the os-discuss list out of people who want to
continue this, without disturbing the rest of the mailing list members?

>>And this was a thread that ran through the article. This is the 
>>next big hurdle for linux....
>This is a "constant hurdle" for all operating systems, as computers 
>are used for more and more, some more abstract, tasks.  Integrating 
>all these things into a conceptual model called the "desktop" is no 
>small feet.
Also, who said the "desktop" model is even the right one? There ARE others,
the desktop is almost 20 years old.

>>if Microsoft frees up it's code and more people can add good improvements,
>>as the linux groups and individuals have....
><OPINION> Er.  I'm not holding my breath on the release of the Windows 
>code....
Agreed, to most of your points, and pleased you'll remain among the living
by continued respiration. Making the source code for Windows visible to the
outside world (I can't even see "Open Sourcing" as a term to be applied here)
is for practical matters a dead end. In fact, it tends to perpetrate this
myth that Microsoft actually developed most of the software and useful fea-
tures in Windows, at least in an IP sense.

The facts are that this is such a rats nest of interlocking NDA's and IP
settlements that it is hard for MS to relase anything too much more than a
very general framework of how things fit together. Arguably, that's already on 
sale at Barnes&Noble, in the form of several Microsoft Press books.

>Witness the netscape code release for examples of legality intersecting with 
>programming.
Thast's right, and Netscape is only about 15% the size of WinNT, in terms of
linecounts, module conts, function points, etc. And look! Mozilla is almost
on it's feet! It's only taken those guys 18 months to get their act together;
from that experience, it's VERY hard to predict how long useful projects would
take to field a product from visible Windows programming. I'd tend to put my
money on more rather than less time, and periods like 5 YEARS would not sur-
prise me. Of course, by that time, the whole thing will probably be obsolete...

                                                               Regards,
                                                                 ---> RGB <---